They know the church wont stand for taking away the Worship Service, so they gut it of all meaning and keep the label. Mahaney was never a Calvinist, much the same as these New Calvinists arent either. My Comment was Deleted @ AnonInNC: He needs a vacation, so do I from LIFE. It is also a biological code. Of the available 52 weekly Friday morning sermons (church in the UAE is held on Friday, Sunday is the first day of the work week) Folmar spoke at exactly half of them 26. This is odd to me. With Mac Brunson you see tweets about Lambert and Mohler and trivializing the impact of Irma on the community while whining about the minor ways it inconvenienced him personally. Well, theyre not laughing now, are they? But what exactly do these terms mean? Thats another contemporary trend so why not ape it in the church? A shepherd is one who feeds. However, I do think it represents something about care and compassion of the sheep and knowing them by name. . @ Gram3: Personally collecting and sending funds from one local body of believers to a non-local body of believers who were in need? This gets dicey when one looks at Jesus own descriptions of the judgment, with Himself as the judge, and He spells out what people whom He knows look like in their behavior. It seems perfectly obvious to me that He wants more when it comes to eternity than just hanging around and thinking pleasant thoughts, so to speak. Please preface it with, As the New Testament CLEARLY shows in XYZ. Is there a bonus for adding Lead Prophet and/or Head Apostle to the title? You could pull a gateway and just pipe them in. We are in a church in which the pastors do show love and humility. Hes doing well. What do you reckon the remuneration will be for this part-time pastoring? Stalling for time to make the transition. feeling tension over what is duplicitous, deceitful, self-promoting under the cover of God is a healthy response. Platt is a proven winner especially among a certain psychographic and he is a young man who can be in the pulpit for many years at MBC. Unless you show me some passages that demonstrate it was the norm. @ Todd Wilhelm: No worries, Arnold. And while Im at it, Ive been on enough church building projects to know that buildings and public meetings arent necessarily blessings. Its true that not everyone likes it, but many people do. Same here. For me, its a point of emphasis. I could add philosophy of ministry as well. With one exception: If I was a pastor, I can understand taking 20-25 hours for study and sermon preparation. I am preparing myself to disciple others. Does not. hows your son doing, bridget? Never did. I wonder when they will roll it out. Being precedes doing, and that doing of mission also requires the Holy Spirit. Exactly. And because we are made in Gods image and likeness, its not good for us to be alone. The suffering of self-sacrifice in this tent of meeting will produce the godly character necessary for ministry unto the LORD, and then unto others. Anointed preaching/proclamation is a big part of this witness. More amazing is members will do so. I think the title of pastor has lost its meaning. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. Third thought is what is wrong with Trustees in the SBC that they cannot act? The trustee statement is rather curious, too. My reference to man was meant as human.. As a former member of Brook Hills where David was once my pastor, I am concerned about this. Instead of sending your money to the church, send it to charities that you personally know and feel connected to. So yes, I do think they dont really care about the other things, too. All this flies under the radar. I remember reading a novel years ago in which one character was into transcendental meditation; and another character (probably speaking for the author) described him thus: You get the comforts of religion without the responsibility. I sincerely doubt that Platt has the mental acuity you have. Its totally untenable but yet I have seen so many in high positions double dip or even have businesses on the side that enrich them even more. This idea is part of what made SBC so missions and evangelism minded. to be more specific, they said that their insurer advised them that if they were to let anyone use their facility other than another non-profit, it could jeopardize their tax-exempt status. @ Todd Wilhelm: I visited his church a number of times when my kids were in college in Birmingham. Also, someone up the comment ladder was mentioning campus churches where the pastor is only on the big screen. Im the face of my department to other groups within the enterprise and I walk a fine line between encouraging people to put all their cards on the table but then subsequently recommending steps these groups should take to keep their particular issue from occurring again. I would put those other elements that you mentioned at the center, and leave the weekly preach as an option. I very much agree that many Christians do this quite well without drawing attention to themselves do you mean positional recognition? Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. @ Sopwith: So why do we continue supporting this made up role? Is Lons final act his final rock drop by event'(tm) to take MBC, its 25,000 people and the whole of the Washington D. C. area for a dark closeted stealthy ride into Calvinisms Dystopian fake gospel? Every church needs an actual pastor who actually is physically present and actually knows and cares for his people. I will grant you that he spoke at other church in the UAE and other countries during some of those weeks, but the fact is he is paid a salary by the UCCD members to be the senior pastor at their church. There is something missing here. Throws a different light on things. Platt can recite long Scripture passages from memory and moves from one precise biblical reference to another to back up his points, which focus heavily on Do you think Platt is making a permanent transition here? If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. It seems to me that youre all just looking for the perfect church. MBC has a full-time administrative pastor and staff, and it seems that they are happy with Platt bringing the star power. Platt, unfortunately, was merely a podcast in person. He has spent some of those weeks off preaching at Advance conferences. Other businesses in the area complained that the Coffee House was not a legitimate church service because it was designed to attract young people and compete with their businesses. Platt New! only 1 church in my town would let me hold a musical recital at their facility. Some of the classes taught by laymembers at MBC are outstanding. It is an honor to have your presence and your concerned comments here at The Wartburg Watch. I think we see a lot of cases where pastors shy away from becoming friends with the people in their church. Yes, if nothing else I wonder how much of a burden these self-acclaimed superman leaders put on the rest of us who cannot seem to do as much as they do. We need each other to properly interpret scripture the body. The things she happened upon sent her down rabbit trails while she was researching Du Bai (sp?) I disagree. He also is not going to get a salary for this new position. Just where can you find all these multitalented people who are biblical scholars who can do all their own research, have a commanding ability at teaching, are people persons who are adept at counseling and hand holding and socializing (three different things there) and who will work 80 hours a week for minimum pay and who refuse to delegate but do it all themselves? Yours is a valuable reminder, too, of how many clergy embody anything BUT the gospel. He believed, and I also think, that is was part of its success. Second thought is the IMB Presidency is a full-time job which God also called him to and God is not as flakey as David Platt appears to be. And in most of these churches, members arent allowed to do much ministry either, because they have paid staff for that who make 4-10x more than the average member of the congregation. Anyway, I love that, and I love Ed's voice! (2) The born-again experience: i.e. Or is FIEC the T4G/TGC/9Marks beachhead in the kingdom? Seminary professor. David and his wife, Heather, have four children. It is the body of Christ -Rachelle. one person i talked to went to so far as to say we cant allow this, or else our tax-exempt status would be jeopardized. Case in point; many years ago my mother, a widow, attended a small church. As a variation on the theme, ISTM that they want to be honoured as gurus without growing into functioning role-models. My concordance doesnt include an entry for paid pastor. have you guys even listened to his sermons?? David Eigenberg isn't deaf in real life, thus he doesn't need hearing aids or have speech problems. It leaves in its wake dis-ease. It has less than half the members and attendance it had when he came. +++++++++++++++++++++++. Just because we are not catholic and they are no longer sacraments doesnt mean they cease to be important. Who wants a job where you give everything, then the mob can take a vote as to whether you keep your job or not! @ okrapod: Just dont ask questions and pay your dues. Do we condemn them after we have taken our profit (Ezek. Silence, as the cancer stealthy grows? Its all part of the business. What does this mean? Yeah, my husband and I are not fans of this recent development. They seem to have united around pragmatic Authoritarianism and Complementarianism. I can see how this could be the cast for new converts, in the same way that newborns depend on the pre-digested proteins of milk. The wonder of it all is that God still honors His Bread. Lon Solomon rarely asked for money in my many years at McLean. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqDaKajSnQ The building which was on the tax rolls is now removed causing a decrease in the tax base and higher taxes for others. No science or study of created things compares to knowing Him in short, theology over sociology (social sciences or created things). There might be potential liability issues should someone not a part of the church be injured on the premises, perhaps certain events wouldnt be covered under their policy, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the tax treatment of a 501(c)(3). (1) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mvDQWOQ2iI, Every Challenge To Calvinism, Is A Heavenly Opportunity, All of heaven shall hear my cry, when Jesus returns, will there be faith upon the earth?, Spy They plan on filling his role with members speaking and an occasional pastor from another related church. One would hope that those who have been given the gift of pastoring by the Holy Spirit, would likewise live their lives and ministries appropriately. the realities of who bears the burden of the costs isnt part of this training. Web9. The flock is right in holding its paid shepherd role accountable, sadly lacking today. While checking that one for accuracy, I came across this one too: Id like to die like my old dad, peacefully in his sleep. The Church gathered to worship is a witness that God indwells His people. In fact, upon being appointed, Platt actually said, I now see the beauty of the CP. Generally, human nature is fairly predictable once we give up the notion that we ourselves or our group is somehow exempt. Everything is predicated upon knowing the LORD! If you had a church in a city that had been owned free and clear for a 100 years it would end up being impossible to run if it wasnt flush with cash. Id be very interested. We are disgusted that its gone neo-Cal and SBC. Smyth of Covenant Life Church. I dont know if they have similar laws in Australia, the churches there appear to have the same penchant for the title. Or when the weekly sermon is the main source of our biblical sustenance. A church in my area was hosting some type of Coffee House service very late on Friday nights. The church is the Bride of Christ, it is a place to make disciples and make the Gospel known. I believe they will be held accountable. His sermons his weekend gig are dark and uninspiring. Bridget, Nonprofits are one of my fields of research. solution pollution Posts: 49. I. But since we were talking about why hire a teaching pastor who is already employed full-time elsewhere for only the purpose of giving sermons, and okrapod asked why cant pastors and staff be diversified. Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. You have a good point. At MBC we have a large pastoral staff who make hospital visits, perform weddings and funerals, etc. If no one has the guts to challenge this false ninja TULIP gospel change agent, and the one who was stupid enough to bring him on board, then McLean Bible Church will quietly descend into Calvinist authoritarian tyrannical darkness, its members none the wiser. Im big on capitol punishment, as in punishing the politicians who work at the capitol. C H Spurgeon : The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach today, or else be false to my conscience and my God., C H Spurgeon : There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace (ed. It seems perfectly obvious to me that He wants more when it comes to eternity than just hanging around and thinking pleasant thoughts, so to speak. Bridget, In what respects? I wrote to one FIEC church elder who stocks books by Mahaney and he fobbed me off with I am busy at the moment I will look as time permits and that was over a year ago. That makes me sad. However, I can tell you as a senior pastor type that its hard to find the funding to hire enough pastors to make that a reality. Even if he mostly avoids distractions from pesky parishioners and students, and mostly recycles and repackages his content, theres still unavoidable meeting time with the church staff who tend the flock, grad assistants who grade the papers, TGC comrades, researchers, editors, publishers etc. Perhaps it could be in a negative senseIOW, everything this man said to do, do the opposite. You can read between the lines Im sure and see how the David Platt thing fits into all of this. Please, I prepped lesson plans for 6 math classes per day (4 different grade levels) in way, way, way less time than that! Suffice to say, God desires a cleaned-up people group, where He can dwell in their midst. This book by Shannon Harris is scheduled to be released in August, about one year later than initially planned. MBC initially became a cooperating church in 2016 when it became the hub for the North American Mission Boards church-planting efforts in the Washington, D.C., area. (Cars, housing, funding for private schooling for his children, etc.). Webdoes david platt have a speech impediment. A current trend where I live.sounds stupid to me. Please keep up the good study. I am surprised the IMB would go for this. Arrrgh. It looks like it to me. Another reason the SBC is a joke. One reason that have always respected Billy Graham is because he knew that he was called to be an Evangelist not a Pastor. David is a teacher to the world, literally, online, through his books, through the IMB, etc. They are very thoughtful about these sorts of things, actually. Or a CEO or accountant looking at the budget and deciding youre too expensive. Thats interesting. A Proverbial Shortcut To Mushrooms, Perhaps?, I think we should get off the road (1), Lon knows quite clearly that the people of McLean Bible Church dont throw stones, Spy Like your husband, I am deeply touched when a pastor knows my name & uses it in a kind way. In oterh words, find a real church. You are spot on except for the money. Plus, it has been my experience, that while this is way overly simplistic, there seems to two kinds of people: 1. I appreciate so much the need for discernment and advocating for victims, but I dont see any crimes here, just a lot of fault finding where there really doesnt seem to be any fault. I tried real hard to laugh about it. He will receive no salary. He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). This is one of the reasons I ended up ditching the SBC for good. A lot of nonsense is talked about peoples fear of public speaking. Standing up on a stage, being the only voice heard in a comfortably organised setting where everyone is explicitly there to hear you speak, is among the most seductively intoxicating pleasures anywhere in this life. Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. Theres very little Scripture in sermons. Is this the same Augustine who is considered one of the fathers of the faith? Look to Him & His word and learn Honorable Little Christ'(tm) , share what youve learned with others, The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. The gospel [good news(tm) ] that Jesus presents in John 3:16, for those that are infected with Calvinism, is simply not enough. Which is part of why I like liturgy; the sermon can be a dud but there is still substance in the rest of the service. This is not to argue against paid staff but it should certainly argue for much more humility than what is often demonstrated. If I baked you 10 cookies but one had poison would you eat one or just throw the entire batch out? Authority is vested (Ill go with that) in the offices and those who hold the offices. Or just not on Sunday morning. He recognized this and lived his life and ministry appropriately. Quite a change in 20 years. Marketing a need for the bread will create a desire for those who feel that by purchasing the bread, they too will be beautiful, successfully suburban with beautiful spouse and kids under blue skies like the advertising. My guess is most celebrity preachers do likewise. Believe in Jesus today, youll be very glad YOU did! I grew up Church of Christ however; denominations mean nothing to me. Thanks for asking . @ dee: . 34:1-10)? He speaks very quietly and sometimes it is hard to make out what he is saying. Free Ride: Please, No Explanations Inside The MBC Church. Im tired and normally pastor shenanigans give me a chuckle, but reading about these clowns just irks me tonight. The role of the pastor is to embody the gospel. So the calling from God to be your pastor is really? But I wonder if the drawbacks of the megachurch are worth those benefits. Most of the congregation will never realize this as they are caught up in the cult of personality. Rather than whole-wheat flour with all its bran and uneven texture, enriched bleached white flour makes a uniform product and its cheaper and plentiful from corporate granaries that have their own juggernaut marketing and distribution channels. Heres one thats guaranteed to make my progressive brothers and sisters recoil in horror and get their boxers and panties in a dither every time: Hi Bridget, i suppose its happening just wish it would go faster. @ Tree: One can have a missions agency and not be a church. Best regards, So while I dislike Platts platitudes in general, Ive no problem with him supply preaching for the church. These graduates then serve the Church. But we didnt expect him to know us all by name, succor us through the tough times of life, or somehow be there for us 24/7. Lol. I was furious but also too new to the church and too scared to call him out on it. I use Word, revelation, and proclamation almost inter-changeably. theres no way it could really take 20-25 hrs per week!!! And the buzz word missional has taken over their thought process. David is a gifted speaker and inspiring leader. @ Nick Bulbeck: In my experience, this is a typical response of FIEC church leaders and it is a cowardly of saying I dont want to know! So sadly I doubt that any of them would care. If we would just let God be God, He would draw all men unto Himself. Who wants a job where you give everything, then the mob can take a vote as to whether you keep your job or not! It is also a biological code. Their national director promoted Thom Rainers miserable article on why pastors should not visit often which explains why the pastoral state of their churches was extremely poor when I attended. We worked out a formula to give the Sunday school class church a small donation to pay for our seat and the heating, etc. Platt has clarified the news is not an immediate resignation; he has asked trustees to begin the search for a new president, and will Overhead is a thing that happens every single day regardless of how many people show up. The Forgotten Mandate: Feed My Sheep or Putting Bread on the Table. Im a liberal lefty too, and I think its high time to revamp the tax codes so that the loopholes are closed and that all non-profits (religious or no) must abide by the same rules. I suggest you spend some time in your 10 hours of studying Gods word to review what is involved in being a pastor. One thing that does often seem to be missing in men and women these days is Godly wisdom. This event basically served as a promotion for one of Platts books and undoubtedly it boosted sales back in the USA. Look for a church in which the pastor knows your name and will sit by your bedside when you are in the hospital. The pastor spends no time ministering to the congregation or outside it. Smyth has preached 20 out of a possible 35 Sundays since he was hired! My son is also in his prime (26) which certainly helps recovery. This post has many thoughtful insights, especially the character qualities needed to be a loving pastor. Once heard a pastor bluster on the stage: When ya get called to the ministry, its like nothin ya ever experienced, why its life changin event! Didnt know any better back then in my youth, but today Id tell that pomposity everyone who knows the Lord has a calling to the ministry, all of us are high priests, and every calling is of utmost importance, and that fact that he thought it wise to mount a stage and puff about his in particular is a sign that he had no calling at all. And, sometimes, you get the pleasure of seeing their petty responses to someone that they have no other way of harming. As all were replaced their titles changed with the word pastor not minister. The Nepalese believers dont seek expenses-paid work jollies or international trips, or book deals. http://www.wadeburleson.org/2017/06/the-southern-baptist-international.html. And why do they clap after singing hymns are they glorifying God or patting themselves on the back? Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers (believers that they must manage). All believers have access to Jesus, scripture, and the power of the Holy Spirit. Smyth started preaching at CLC on January 8, 2017. One of many reasons I am not a fan of institutionalied/bureaucracy-ized Churchianity. Who God is, and what He has done in Christ on our behalf takes precedence. I love this story! They say they write their own sermons. Platt, unfortunately, was merely a podcast in person. Based on that I was planning to make MBC my home church. One hour to download it from a Research Service and trim off the labels, 19-24 hours to play Doom, Sounds like Comrade Napoleon on how the Pigs of the Inner Party have such a hard and lonely task. The meetings are usually an hour long. It is ended, neither by might of appeal (marketing) nor power of delivery systems, but by My Spirit, says the LORD. I have long been an advocate of this. The Church is there to train us, teach us. Find a church in which the pastor knows you name and truly cares about you-not an abstract you who is just a part of a mass of faces. Im not so sure God is so worried about all our acronyms..SBC, IMB, etc Is not our mission unity in love Making disciples, preaching the word to all nations? Madison Avenue helps to appeal to the wants and desires of the target audience. I dont disagree. The model in the New Testament was shared leadership. Youre modeling New Testament now? Remember that the word Pastor derives from the Latin for Shepherd, if these pastors were employed as actual shepherds they would be lucky to have any sheep left after a week, they would either wonder away, be eaten by wolves, would starve to death or dehydrate, since they seem to believe that they are only supposed to do one job and not deal with the other responsibilities. I am saddened that you have heard nothing new from the pulpit in years. John 3:16 God so loved the world.God loves us all and wants us to spend eternity with him. is there NO one in the UK and/or Ireland who can speak at the FIEC Leaders Conference that an American has to be imported? You both nailed it to the wall! Therefore, Who God is and what He has done is paramount for the faith community. Im a firm believer in Capital Punishment. @ Bridget: Its the wrong place for them and they ought to go out and look for a better fitnot quotes from the letter, but a general impression I have retained from reading that Mailbag article a few years ago. We do exactly what He said not to do, excusing it with the idea we are contextualizing it for today or that today is different than Bible times, and then get our panties in a wad when things go badly. Human nature is fairly predictable once we give up the notion that we ourselves or our group is exempt... Where I live.sounds stupid to me looking for the faith a cleaned-up people group, where can. Church, send it to charities that you Personally know and feel connected to pastor shenanigans give me a,! Has taken over their thought process they cease to be your pastor is really feel connected to IMB etc... Quite well without drawing attention to themselves do you mean positional recognition Avenue helps to to. 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